“The thing that Carl hates most in life is disappointing me.”
You might not remember doing it, but when you saw Lindsay Hubbard utter those words about her then fiancé during the April 11 episode of Bravo’s reality-TV show Summer House, you probably cringed. You might have gasped. Maybe you laughed uncomfortably because you knew the woman you were watching on TV was very much in love but that Carl Radke—the guy who supposedly hates disappointing his bride-to-be more than anything—would soon blindside her by calling off the engagement, as reported nine months earlier, before the episodes aired. What ungodly voodoo potion are the men of Bravo drinking these days? One has to wonder.
The broken engagement—the second Bravo bombshell of 2023—made headlines in August, but as of Thursday, May 30, viewers finally got to see it play out on camera during Summer House’s season-eight finale. When I meet Hubbard, 37, on a sunny May afternoon two days before the fateful episode airs, she confirms that yes, she’s caught up. She’s seen it all, including the final hour, and gives a subtle shake of her head as if to say, “What the actual fuck?”
For a brief moment we could have been mistaken for two Bravo fans gossiping about their favorite reality show over lunch at a popular Madison Avenue restaurant. But one of us consumed the season passively, often scrolling on her phone as she watched. The other lived through the trauma of loving another person so unabashedly only to have that love be distorted and reexamined over the course of 15 episodes before ultimately dissipating on national television.
When it came time for the current season of Summer House to air, Hubbard and Radke, 39, had been broken up for six months—arguably still the fresh-wound zone—and so Hubbard armed herself with a viewing tactic so as not to relive her hurt on a weekly basis.
“I kept reminding myself when I would watch each episode that it was the past,” says Hubbard, pouring a pack of Splenda into her unsweetened iced tea. “But what I did differently this season was I stacked the episodes so I wasn’t watching every week like the viewers do. I would wait a couple of weeks, and then watch a few at a time, then take a month off, and then watch a few more. That way I wasn’t creating consistent anxiety for myself.”
It’s hard not to notice how decidedly unanxious Hubbard looks now, sitting across from me in a shrunken white tee, black jeans, a leather belt, and the perfect ponytail. Her skin—which she tells me later had been a source of insecurity over the years—is clear and smooth. Her diamond studs glitter, and the single gold Cartier Love bracelet snakes up and down her wrist as she gesticulates, which she does frequently and without abandon. Her eye contact is almost disarmingly unwavering. She came to talk and that’s just what she’s doing.
But first, some backstory: When Summer House aired in January of 2017, the premise was familiar to anyone who consumed unscripted television on any network. Pluck a bunch of good-looking young people from the grind of their daily lives, deposit them into a house somewhere desirable, add booze, and wait for the drama. In this case it was weekends in the Hamptons, the rarified summer enclave on the East End of New York’s Long Island. During its eight-season run, inhabitants of the summer house have come and gone (Jules, anyone?), but Hubbard and Radke have stayed the course since episode one. The self-proclaimed best friends dabbled in a fling during season four before realizing they were truly meant to be in 2022.
For the most part this pairing intrigued viewers. Hubbard had always been an alpha personality who never seemed to care about being liked and was never shy about sharing her definition of what success looked like for her: engagement, marriage, babies. And after a few failed relationships, she finally found, it seemed, the love story she’d always imagined. Radke was a reformed fuckboy who entered season six sober for the first time. With a newfound maturity, he emerged as a clear-headed foil to his housemates, passing up partying until 4 a.m. for early mornings at Barry’s Boot Camp. They were affectionate. They seemed to agree that renting a $13,000-a-month apartment was reasonable. They called each other “babe” a lot.
Last season’s beachside proposal appeared to close the book on the single lives of two classic reality-TV personalities. Some viewers—and maybe select friends—thought they were a ticking time bomb, but most agreed they were madly in love and the pairing was crazy enough that it just might work.
And then Hubbard, in an early episode of the most recent season, accused Radke of not being sober. What seemed like a offhand comment turned into a watershed moment for Summer House, one I’d imagine Andy Cohen including in a “10 Most Shocking Bravo Moments” countdown on a What What Happens Live special alongside Scary Island, Scandoval, the color-coded binder of receipts, the table flip.
Reddit popped off. Bravo stan accounts racked up thousands of comments. Fans turned on Hubbard, who issued an apology on her Instagram.
“My delivery was terrible,” Hubbard admits when I ask her about it. “I should have used way more delicate words, but at the end of the day, I was trying to evaluate why someone’s behavior was off. Why he was being aggressive and dismissive. At that point in time, it reminded me of the old Carl. Well, we all know what old Carl means.”
From there the season did its best to show the very real ways a couple—even if they ostensibly adore each other—can be undeniably incompatible. Radke was insecure about not having a clear career path; Hubbard wanted stability. Radke had half-baked ideas about cool stuff he could do, such as start a sober sports bar, Hubbard—a former PR executive—wasn’t sold.
When Kyle Cooke, their housemate and founder of ready-to-drink cocktail brand Loverboy, offered Radke a small monthly stipend to help work on a potential no-alcohol SKU, Hubbard asked the right questions and Radke got angry.
It appeared to some viewers that Radke—like so many men in this world—maybe just wanted a woman who was (in his words) “soft and tender.” To never question, negate, or worry about what’s ahead. To cajole and nod and massage. In the midst of a tense conversation about his future endeavors during the finale, he asks Hubbard for a hug. “Tighter,” he says, while his fiancée complies, looking visibly uncomfortable. “My skin was crawling,” Hubbard tells me now. Same, girl.
Hubbard is excited for the future. She’s given up her day job owning her own PR firm in favor of full-time influencing (“I really just leaned into being Lindsay on Summer House”).
She’s also trying her hand at property management, having purchased a home in Nashville last December—obviously called Hubbhouse—with the goal of renting it out to devoted Summer House fans. “It’s a built-in income system,” she says. She tells me Hubbhouse has been booked every single week. Sometimes multiple times a week.
As promised, Lindsay Hubbard came to talk and she delivered. Below, you’ll find our conversation that covers everything from her relationship with the girls in the house, to her feelings on shooting with her ex next season, her thoughts on being a reality-television long-hauler, and more.
Glamour: How has it really been watching the last season?
Lindsay Hubbard: The beginning was a little rough. It’s had its ups and downs. I knew going in that it was going to be challenging, having to relive a past relationship. I kept reminding myself, “You have a lot going on in the present and in the future.” I go to therapy every single week, so I would talk through a lot about what happened on the episodes.
Was there anything you were genuinely surprised by as you watched?
Oh, yeah. We’re a cast of 10 and we’re an ensemble for a reason. We can only be in so many places at once. So I was mostly surprised at a lot of the conversations that Carl was having with everyone else but me. I think that was a big reason for the breakdown in our relationship—he wasn’t communicating with me, but was with everyone else. Watching it back, I’d say, “I had no idea he felt that way. I thought everything was fine.”
It was hard to watch your relationship with Carl fall apart, but a nice byproduct was seeing you bond with the other women in the house in a way viewers hadn’t seen. No drama!
Having those girls and their support last summer was just so helpful. Especially toward the last two weeks of the season when I could not understand what was going on with Carl, the girls were just so incredible and validating. I think they were more open and gave me more of a judgment-free space to share my feelings, and emotions without feeling like I’m going to get attacked.
Do you feel like there was judgment in past seasons?
A hundred percent. If you look at last season, the girls didn’t…they just took Danielle’s [Olivera’s] side and they didn’t necessarily even stop to ask me my side of things. I was just happy that this year, they actually asked questions and they listened, and I think they saw, “Oh, well, maybe not everything is Lindsay’s fault all the time.” So it was really nice to have that safe space to be able to share my emotions.
I want to talk more about sobergate. Can you talk me through the accusation you made and the story behind it?
Well, first of all, that particular night was our very first in the house. I was on edge. I’m walking into a house with a bunch of girls who the previous summer had seemingly hated me. I had a lot of anxiety about what’s going to happen. We missed the first weekend. We’re coming in almost on our back foot. I’m drinking more, just slugging rosé, and Carl’s behavior was off. It was. I don’t think it’s wrong of me to question when someone’s behavior is off. I’m drunk, I’m emotional, I have anxiety, I’m on edge, I’m not paying attention to the fact that there are cameras or microphones around the house.
I didn’t have a microphone on, and I’m just venting. Now of course, we’re filming a TV show, but unfortunately, I was at a point where I’m not paying attention to the fact that the words I say are going to make it onto where the rest of America is going to hear it. I definitely should have used more delicate words, but the sentiment was that he’s acting like old Carl, what does that mean?
I agree maybe your delivery could have been better, but after I watched the episode, I was like, “That was real,” because anyone that’s dated or lived with someone who had a problem with drugs and alcohol knows that’s the first thing you’re going to think if they’re acting out of character. It’s impossible not to.
Thank you for saying that, because it’s hard to understand what it’s like to be with an addict unless you experienced it for yourself. I had a lot of people reach out to me on Instagram who have sober partners, and many told me that they have questioned, on multiple occasions, their partner’s sobriety, because you pay attention to certain behaviors and you worry. At the end of the day, Carl was the love of my life. This was the guy I’m about to marry and spend the rest of my life with. He was my partner. He was my future husband. So when I’m questioning certain behaviors of his, it came from the right place. Shit delivery, though.
I want to talk about you and Carl trying to communicate all season. As a viewer and a woman, I felt uncomfortable with the way you guys talked about the future. Carl seemed to lack confidence about his career and, like so many men, seemed to take it out on you for not being a cheerleader at all times. I interpreted the situation as you asking normal questions about your future to the man you’re about to marry, not tearing him down.
I truly was so confused in those moments. I’m literally just asking the most normal, simple, basic questions. One theory that I had over summer, or after the breakup when I was just reliving every conversation, was that he didn’t know the answers to my questions and I think it made him feel dumb. We’re on national television, and I’m accidentally making him look dumb by asking normal questions.
Right. Like you’re intentionally knocking him down on TV.
But I’m asking these questions because I’m a businesswoman and an entrepreneur, and I have experience. We’re about to walk down the aisle in a very expensive wedding that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then have children. All my friends ever tell me is how expensive kids are.
I can confirm!
He knows that I’m a hard worker and I plan ahead. Why are you now thinking that’s going to change? Now I’m not even allowed to ask any questions, or give any advice, or say anything at all, and just give you hugs?
Do you feel like you dodged a bullet?
Massive. Massive bullet. Massive. I really truly feel thankful that the universe, or God, or whatever higher being you believe in, stepped in and saved me from a really long, hard, rough life ahead. And because of that, I learned a lot from a very traumatic experience, and I feel like I learned a lot about what I’m not going to do in my future, especially in my romantic life..
Did you see red flags before last summer?
That’s the problem. I didn’t. I was so in it, and I’m such a fighter. I will never walk away until I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I have done everything humanly possible to make something work, and we weren’t there.
When did you start to see them?
When the breakup happened, I surrounded myself with my girlfriends. Gabby [Prescod] came over every single day for, legitimately, two weeks straight. And we would sit and talk and talk. As we put everything on the table, I saw the red flags that I had been ignoring, out of love, and maybe out of the [desire for a] fairytale. I’m not going to pretend like there wasn’t an element to that. In my mind, it’s like, “Oh my God. I fell in love with my best friend, and now I get to marry my best friend. What a fairytale come true.” But that probably added to me being blinded to all of these red flags that I just wasn’t seeing, or was willing to ignore.
Do you ever see Carl around?
Yeah, I do. There was a wedding in Portugal a month ago that both of us were at.
Did you say hi?
No. It was before the reunion and there was no point in small talk. For the most part, he’s just another guy in the room to me.
During your tenure on Summer House, you’d talk about the so-called timeline you wanted to adhere to by certain ages—engaged, marriage, babies. Are you done with those objectives you set for yourself?
Oh, I abandoned those timelines. One thing I’ve learned is literally any time I’ve ever tried to plan something, the universe laughs in my face. The universe has bigger plans, and I’m not fighting it anymore.
Do you feel nervous about filming with Carl next season?
I don’t.
Really?
It’s almost a year ago that we broke up, and I did a lot of healing. I’m still healing in different ways, of course, but I’m just so happy to not be in that.
Are you more over it than angry?
Yes. When I’m watching it, I’m seeing a past relationship and it’s infuriating. But when I run into him at a wedding, for example, I feel indifferent. I’m just more over it than any other emotion. Like I said, he’s like another guy in the room.
That seems admirably mature.
I’ve completely moved on in my life and I have so much to focus on in my future.
Are you dating someone new?
I am. Yeah. He lives and works here in New York.
Would he ever consider being on the show?
I don’t know. We haven’t really gotten deep into those conversations.
Would you ever consider leaving Summer House?
I would be on Summer House until I was 100.
Yeah? You still like doing it that much?
Despite all of the challenges that my ex and I had last summer, it was really, truly a fun summer. I had a blast with the girls, and it makes me excited for this upcoming summer, too, because I still have a great relationship with all of them and the new guys, West and Jesse. I think it was a really good dynamic all around with this cast.
Is it weird to have strangers think they know you intimately because they’ve watched you on TV for seven years?
It can be. But the stakes feel higher now. You’ve watched my journey from day one. You’ve seen me in and out of different relationships. You’ve followed my career in PR and out of PR. You’ve dived into my family and childhood trauma. I had a miscarriage and I talked about it. I’ve had ups and downs with my friendships on the show. You’ve watched me have this incredibly circuitous journey where you’re watching someone basically grow up and learn how to adult.
Are you still in that same apartment you lived in with Carl?
I am. I actually just renewed my lease for another year. My landlord and I worked out a deal where she reduced the rent, which literally never happens in New York, so all signs were pointing for me to stay.
What’s the story with your wedding dresses?
I have three. I had one and I realized I had buyer’s remorse after purchasing it, but I got it from a sample sale so I couldn’t return it. Then I bought the one that you saw on the show. Then I got a second dress for the after-party. They’re sitting in my closet. I’m going to sell one and and donate one. That’s the short answer.
Do you think when Summer House ends, you’d still want to do unscripted TV?
Yeah. I would hope that there was a way to follow my journey. I think that there is still a lot more to go, and to see from me, so maybe Bravo will fit me in somewhere else, if my days on Summer House ever come to an end. They seem to like me over there. I give them a lot of content to work with.
Last question: Do you wish Carl well?
Long pause. Long pause. I wish him a journey of healing.
Perrie Samotin is Glamour’s digital director and host of Glamour’s What I Wore When podcast. Follow her @perriesamotin.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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