Warning: Spoilers for Heated Rivalry episode five, ahead.
It only takes two minutes into my Zoom call with Heated Rivalry star François Arnaud before he gets choked up over Scott Hunter’s brave declaration of love at the end of episode five.
It’s only fair, considering it took about two minutes of screen time for Arnaud to drive countless Heated Rivalry fans to tears in the episode’s final moments. Picture this: Fresh off winning the championship cup, a veteran hockey captain becomes the first out gay player in his sport by kissing his ex-boyfriend on the ice in front of the entire world…and two very closeted but desperately pining hockey players watching from home. And it’s all set to the pulsing soundtrack of “I’ll Believe in Anything” by Wolf Parade, the same song Scott Hunter (Arnaud) was listening to right before he set eyes on art-history buff Kip Grady (Robbie G.K.) behind the smoothie counter in episode three.
“I heard the lyrics again in a completely new light,” Arnaud says of the reprise. “The mention of ‘sunshine,’ which was Elena’s (Nadine Bhabha) sort of forceful tip at the end of three…it made me really emotional.”
Yeah, same, Arnaud. To anyone who complained that the series hit pause on Ilya Rozanov (Connor Storrie) and Shane Hollander (Hudson Williams)’s yearning stage to devote an entire episode to Scott and Kip earlier this season, you should now understand what Game Changers fans have known since reading the queer romance novels by Rachel Reid: There’s no happy ending for Hollanov without Skip.
In fact, that’s pretty much what sold Arnaud on taking the role, despite initial reservations about taking on such an unapologetically “horny and sexy” project when he was sent the scripts by creator and showrunner Jacob Tierney. “I’m not someone who particularly enjoys sexualizing myself for the sake of it, or taking on that sex symbol persona,” Arnaud says of his initial hesitation, adding, “I always undercut it with humor or self-deprecation and use my own insecurities to make that whole thing palatable.” And yet, Arnaud didn’t even finish reading episode three before he called Tierney to give him an emphatic yes.
“Jacob told me from the get-go that, for him, Scott’s story in episode three was kind of like the heart of the show and the more heart-on-its-sleeve aspect of the show,” he continues. “It allowed him to keep Ilya and Shane more tentative in their dynamic. That’s how he felt about the end of five as well. They sort of live their own emotional climax vicariously through Scott.”
Speaking with Arnaud for even just 30 minutes, it doesn’t surprise me at all that Tierney kept him in mind for the role while developing the Crave Original series, which was eventually picked up by HBO Max for US distribution to massive success. Aside from the earnest charm he shares with the soft-hearted jock, the 40-year-actor has built an impressive résumé over the last two decades—including starring roles in The Borgias and Midnight, Texas—making him a true veteran figure when compared with Heated Rivalry 20-something breakouts Storrie and Williams.
That experience compelled Arnaud to play defense earlier this month when I Love LA star Jordan Firstman claimed the series is “just not gay” in an interview with Vulture, further describing it as “two straight hockey players pretending to be gay.” Arnaud, who came out as bisexual in 2020, quickly replied to an Instagram post about the quotes, writing, “Is there only one way to have ‘authentic’ gay sex on tv? Should the sex that closeted hockey players have look like the sex that sceney LA gay guys have?”
Firstman has since praised Heated Rivalry and appeared in multiple social media posts with Hudson Williams during a recent HBO Max event. “Jordan sent me a lovely message on Instagram the day after, and I said, ‘Absolutely no hard feelings,’” Arnaud tells me after sharing a more in-depth perspective on the discourse surrounding queer representation in media.
In a candid conversation with Glamour, François Arnaud discussed what prompted his Instagram response, a major change Heated Rivalry had to make to Skip’s timeline, and Scott’s potential journey in season two (or spin-off). And, of course, before we can meet up with our other favorite duo at Shane’s cabin in next week’s season finale, it’s imperative we break down the pivotal moment that brought us there.
Glamour: My very professional pre-interview notes about the end of episode five start off with a full keyboard smash.
François Arnaud: [Laughs.] I don’t know what that means, exactly. What is that?
I just hit my keyboard with both hands like. [Demonstrates.] Anyway, what was your reaction to reading that script for the first time?
Pretty much, my reaction to reading the script for that moment, as well as the rest of it, was that it felt so earned and deserved and kind of a cataclysmic moment, hopefully, for television and in the context of that sport. I could feel the shock wave of that, if it happened in real life, you know? And now seeing it with the crowd added in and the VFX is so epic. I’m not one to be particularly moved by watching myself on screen normally, but watching that, I was having goosebumps.
The song too! “I’ll Believe in Anything” by Wolf Parade. Every beat of that moment was insane.
I didn’t realize they were going to use that same song. They use that song at the top of episode three, when Scott is jogging on the street before he meets Kip, and then reuse it for that emotional climax. I thought that was really clever. I heard the lyrics again in a completely new light. The mention of “sunshine,” which was Elena’s sort of forceful tip at the end of three, yeah, it made me really emotional.
I also had seen that sequence in ADR. I’m not sure if it had the music. Jacob Tierney—who is the creator of the show and wrote and directed everything—was in the other room, and there was one moment or a breath, I think, I had to do for the scene, but he’s like, “I’m gonna show you the whole sequence.” I was in my ADR booth, and I just couldn’t, like, speak. And then he came to me—I’m tearing up again, actually—and he just held me. We were both kind of…yeah, sorry. I’m just getting emotional.
[He was, in fact, tearing up.]
You mentioned the moment in the ADR booth in a previous interview, but I believe you said the moment was coming in the season finale—
No, I think that I was actually misquoted on that one. I said “emotional climax of the season for me,” and I think they assumed I meant the finale. I mean, there is a good moment with Scott and the finale as well. But no, I was referring to episode five, definitely.
It was a bit of a wild swing for a new show to completely shift focus away from the two main characters for episode three and just zoom in on this peripheral guy that we’ve seen. For fans of the books, it wasn’t a surprise and I think people have had different reactions to it. Some people really connect with the story. Some people also wanted to see more of the main characters because there are so few episodes. But I think that for their stories to all come together, and for Scott and Kip’s moment to have that direct influence on what the other guys permit themselves, is just like…yeah, I think it’s brilliant screenwriting.
I hadn’t read the books coming into the show, so for me it was a surprise to switch. However, Scott and Kip’s story really hooked me. I was already enjoying the show, but at that point Ilya and Shane’s story was so internal that I enjoyed hearing people really talk to each other.
In a way, that’s what moved me about that bottle episode. It kind of is a window into what happens to these guys if they if they don’t own up to who they are. It’s a bit of a flash forward, like, Oh, this is what happens 10 years on, and it’s not as sexy and cute anymore. It’s kind of tragic.
And so, there’s the weight of that. To find Scott in a place where he’s completely emotionally available for this thing to happen in his life and yet unable to reconcile it with his reality of himself in the sport, as a figure of inspiration for his team and the world.… It’s so much weight on his shoulders. And for him to then, at the end of five, experience that immense joy of winning the cup and for it to be a collective thing with the team, but then to see all the teammates bring that joy into their private circle in front of everybody and for him to be unable to do that.… I think there’s just something like, Oh, I’m going to do this for me now. I’ve done enough. I’m going to do this.
“We got the cup. We did the thing. The podcasts can leave me alone.”
Yeah! [Laughs.] There’s certainly a high, and I think it’s a complete, wild mix of various emotions in that moment. One of them clearly has to be fear, but also there’s something galvanizing about pushing through that fear.
Do you want hockey players to watch this episode? Is that something you’re thinking about?
Yeah, I hope they do. I don’t have any hockey players in my circle, so I haven’t been able to talk to any of them who may or may not have watched the show. Through this, I’ve met agents who represent hockey players who have told me, in confidentiality and without naming any names, that this is something that some of them do go through. So it’s not just fantasy, you know? The show has already reached a much wider audience than I ever hoped it would and a breadth of different people with different backgrounds. I think that’s the power of storytelling.
I relate to tons of stories all the time that have nothing to do with me and that don’t concern me in a particular way, but it’s an empathy-generating machine. I hope that, yes, some people do connect the dots and maybe reflect on the locker room talk that is inadvertently toxic, that we’re taught to partake in. Not so long ago—like, I’m not that old—the word gay, for instance, in high school didn’t mean homosexual. It just meant weak and bad.
I’ve been thinking a lot about this show and the idea of shame because obviously, there has been a lot of discourse about how the show will affect queer representation in sports and media and how it depicts coming-out stories as well as the shame that Ilya and Shane and Scott are all dealing with throughout the season. But there are so many things we also feel shame about. I feel like this show is getting people to talk to each other about reading romance novels when they previously tucked those interests away.
[Nods enthusiastically.] As if it’s at best a guilty pleasure to indulge in. That’s why I think Jacob was the perfect person to adapt this because he’s not in contempt of the original material, and he actually gives it back its nobility by embracing it fully. He doesn’t shy away from from the fantasy aspect of it or the smutty aspect of it. Fully embracing it sort of elevates it and takes it incredibly seriously.
I want to ask about a technicality. I haven’t read the books, but from what I’m aware of, the Scott and Kip breakup in the books is a few months long. To fit the timeline that we’re dealing with in the television show, they have their breakup—or whatever it is—right before the Olympics in 2014 and we have our kiss in 2017. How did that change their story for you?
That changed. That’s not how we shot it. We played it as if it were six months long, and then they realized in the edit [when they were] combining the two storylines that something was off. Not to throw anyone under the bus, but the timeline was always the biggest issue to make all these characters and plot lines intertwine. So we imagined a bunch of different things, like, what happens in between. It certainly doesn’t seem to me when I watch it that they haven’t been in touch at all…
I think Scott, by the end of three, understands that he has been selfish in his asks, in his demands of Kip, and that he kind of wrongfully assumed that the other one would be happy dating a rich hockey player. But when Elena confronts him, he understands that he’s essentially asking someone else to regress in their journey in order to fit his. That’s why I think he doesn’t go into the bar at the end of three to see Kip. He’s just like, well, if I do love him, I have to let him go.
I wonder if extending the timeline will help some viewers see that perspective because I definitely saw some people on social media side-eye Kip a little bit by saying he wasn’t being held hostage or could have told at least his dad because Scott was fine with Elena knowing. But it wasn’t going to be a few months of hiding. In the show, it was years before Scott was ready.
I think Kip wants the truly full life with Scott. Yes, of course, he’s not held hostage. And it’s a kind of a golden prison, too [laughs], but we see how Scott reacts, for instance, in public when they go to the art gallery. Scott is not where he wants to be, and I think eventually they both know that that would get toxic and he would start snapping at Kip and scolding him for just being himself or acting too gay or that kind of thing, which I think happens in a lot of relationships.
That shush in the art dealership was loud.
I did a few takes of that shush, and my original instincts were to do a much milder version. And then Jacob was like, “Just give me one real hard shush. Like you become someone else for a moment.” And that’s the one they kept. [Laughs.]
You have said that you didn’t think Scott “clocked” Shane’s sexuality or relationship with Ilya. Were you just talking about that “1221” moment? Or in general?
I just meant in that “1221!” Certainly, it comes off as more obvious that he does clock him in the edit than it did on the day. The editing kind of favors that interpretation. What my take on it was that there was something that maybe Scott didn’t even name for himself. Something smelled off that he, both in a kind of a troll-y way but also as a bit of a protector, is checking in [with Shane]. I feel a kinship there, but it didn’t seem as purposeful or, like, cunty when I did it. Maybe that’s just how it came out.
At least for “You’re starting to sound like him.”
Oh no, definitely then. Definitely then. “You’re starting to sound like him?” Absolutely. I don’t have a confirmation that it’s happening, but I certainly know that it’ll hit a nerve. And that’s exactly where I stick it in, you know?
I don’t want to rehash the past week’s drama, but I was also wondering what made you want to reply to the recent controversial comments made about Heated Rivalry [by I Love LA star Jordan Firstman]?
It has absolutely nothing to do with the person who made that comment. I only have respect for them. Listen, it was two things: It was because I kind of resent, in general, the type of groupthink that—both in my personal life and in representation in the media—that this is how such and such people are. Like, this is who we are as a group. I feel like there’s room for a multitude of types of representation of queer people.
Not every show has to tick all the boxes for everyone. My desire for authenticity is to the specific character in a specific context within the realm of a specific genre, which is not a documentary, you know? [Heated Rivalry] is based on a smutty romance novel. And there’s an aspect of fantasy, there’s an aspirational quality to that.
The other thing was also standing up for my younger costars, who I feel have given so much to this show and brought so much of themselves. I understand the idea of seeing yourself or the youth seeing themselves represented and seeing successful people who are outside the “norm” or the majority and seeing them succeed. But also, I feel like we have to remember what happened to Kit Connor, for instance, on Heartstopper. Bullying people into coming out is not the kind of representation that we should want.
Ultimately, what I want is for people who are not hiding that part of themselves to not be discriminated against in this industry, and not to just play gay roles but play any roles. The day that happens, then there won’t be a problem, and then everybody will be open about it. If we keep punishing people for being “too this” or “not that enough,” that really makes people and makes me kind of want to get back in my shell.
And obviously, we’ve now seen Jordan and Hudson together on social media—
Jordan sent me a lovely message on Instagram the day after, and I said, “Absolutely no hard feelings.” People are allowed their opinion. Obviously, they’re also allowed to have a particular opinion in one particular moment and to let that out. I just didn’t want that conversation to just be one-sided, and I wanted to add my two cents to that.
I appreciate that. And now we’ve still got one more episode of Heated Rivalry and a confirmed second season. What can you tell us about that?
Yeah, that’s very exciting. I have no idea what my involvement with it is. I’m sure we’ll see more of Scott and Kip. I don’t know in what capacity, exactly. I heard, like, months ago, before the show even came out, that the producers were interested in a potential spin-off, so who knows? I don’t know if it’s now. I don’t know if it’s season two. I don’t know if it’s season three.
I think everyone is so surprised by how the show took off. The plans that they had for the show might have changed because now the show has its own fan base, and that’s not just book-related. So will they stick exactly to the plot lines of the book? It’s no secret that in the books, Scott ends up buying the bar, the Kingfisher Tavern, and then I think develops a close friendship with Ilya. So who knows if that’s going to be part of [Tierney’s] plan?
So far, you have more scenes with Hudson than you do with Connor, but it seems like you’ve created this wonderful relationship with both.
We were in Toronto for many months, staying in the same hotels and apartments and trained together, the three of us. I had a lovely relationship with Robbie for our scenes, but I ended up spending more time off set with Hudson and Connor because we were training for hockey, learning to play hockey together, like, the three of us with a coach. We were always together all the time. All the hockey stuff took a while to shoot, even if it doesn’t look like there’s that much of it. It was three full weeks.
Also, with other cast members, it just really felt like something we made as a family. Christina [Chang], who plays Hudson’s mom, we’re still very close. We talk all the time. Sophie Nélisse, I love. We had no scenes together, but I just did something else for HBO with Sophie. I love her, and I think she’s amazing, and we had been briefly on Yellowjackets together.
People are loving that crossover online.
I think that’s really great how this show also makes people curious about what the actors have been doing prior that they might have missed. I hope, selfishly, for the people I work with that it shines a light on an indie that I’m proud of.
Are you talking about Mom, which also stars Schitt’s Creek alum Emily Hampshire?
For sure, yes. But also this movie called Fucktoys that I did that’s maybe my favorite thing I’ve ever been in, which is directed by this woman Annapurna Sriram, who was the star of it too. It won South by Southwest and has done incredibly well in festivals. I think it’s going to have a spring release, but we went to a screening last night in Los Feliz, and I’m just happy to share this success with as many people as possible.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity. The Heated Rivalry season finale hits HBO Max at 12 a.m. ET on December 26.
We’re skipping right to book six—and maybe book seven?
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